Monday, August 22, 2011

"You do not believe because you are not my sheep"

The following verses from the Bible are awesome, true, and also a point of much misunderstanding and confusion in the Calvinist/Arminian debate:


John 6:37

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.”


John 6:44-45

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”


John 6:65

He went on to say, ‘This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.’”


John 8:43-44, 47

Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. . . . 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.


John 10:26-29

. . . but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”


John 17:1-2, 6, 9, 24

Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. . . . 6 I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. . . . 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. . . . 24 Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am.”


For an excellent discussion of the Arminian perspective on these verses, I would recommend that you each . read the following article:

The Order of Faith and Election in John's Gospel

It contains some very clear and powerful ideas concerning the transition from the Old Covenant before Christ, and the introduction of Jesus as the perfect revelation of the Father and His official representative. Those throughout Israel and the world, therefore, who truly knew and loved God the Father already, those who were in right relationship with Him, would also come to Jesus and embrace the Messiah, when He was presented to them. It's a great opportunity to really dig deeply into the Word of God and to gain further understanding of the aforementioned passages.


5 comments:

Leonardo de la Paor said...

Hi,

Who? What? Where? When? Why? and How? These are the questions that have to be answered at a crime scene. Who is Jesus talking to? He is talking to Babylonian Talmudic Jews, whose minds have been poisoned by Babylonian religion. They have rejected Torah/Tanach & placed The Traditions of the Elders ABOVE the Word of God. These Traditions were written down 600 years after Christ & were translated into English in 1937.

Now read John 2:23-25 & continue reading into John 3:1-21. He KNEW what was being taught by the Pharisees, Sadducees & Co.

It is the duty of every Christian who is on the Internet to search for the Babylonian Talmud. Here is the site that I use:

www.come-and-hear.com

Beware that they are not a Christian group, but provide powerful information to the Christian, so that he can, at last, understand what Jesus was warning us about: "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees."

When you have informed yourself on this issue, you can then go back & finish answering the other questions.

Leonardo de la Paor said...

Hi,

How many people were saved out of Sodom? How many people were saved out of the Flood? How many people were in the Upper Room before Pentecost? And did Paul jump down from his horse or did God knock him off?

I like to read of God's sovereignty right through the Bible.


If one needs a single good example, it is significantly to be found in the most dreadful act of human violence and hatred that man has ever committed: the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ. That this was not merely foreseen by the Father, but predetermined (Acts 2:23) and determined before to be done (Acts 4:27, 28) is stated categorically in the clearest possible terms:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain (Acts 2:23).

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom Thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done (Acts 4:27, 28).

Skarlet said...

Leonardo,

Regarding your first comment, I agree with you that the question of who Jesus was addressing is absolutely important here. Did you have a chance to read the article that I provided the link to?

To your second comment, I also agree with you. God is completely Sovereign over the universe, and nothing happens without His permission. All things are within His power to control.

http://christiancompletely.blogspot.com/2009/09/round-3-free-will-vs-sovereignty-final.html

Leonardo de la Paor said...

Hi Skarlet,

Acts 4:27,28 "Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. They did what Your power and will had DECIDED BEFOREHAND should happen."


I believe this passage is a marvelous affirmation of God's overall control over His plans, not least His salvation project. It deserves our full attention and we must fully take into account this verse no matter how 'anti-determinist' we are.

Skarlet, I found that in the past when I was backsliding, I was very Arminian & ecumenical, but once I confessed my way-wardness & was restored to God's Word, I began AGAIN to see things as they are written.

We goyim (Gentiles) are so ignorant of how pagan Israel was by the time Jesus came on earth. We must read the Gospels from His perspective & know that He is telling the Jews that a terrible judgement is coming on them & that the Temple & all that pertained to it was to be done away with.

Google, The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah by Alfred Edersheim. There are a few websites that have it online to read. This book will be of great help to you understand the time in which Jesus lived. Edersheim was a converted Jew. But even he was afraid to expose the filth that was in the Babylonian Talmud.

The amount of superstition & Babylonian fables that was taught in synagogues is mind-boggling. You can through away most of the commentaries on the Bible. The Leaven of the Pharisees has spread through all the Bible colleges. You really have to dig for the Truth, like a biblical archaeological student. All the Reformers got it wrong about the Whore of Revelation, because they stopped using the Old Testament as a reference. In Revelation 11:8 you are given the name of the city. How could they miss it? Rome is a daughter of the Whore, as are most of the churches today.

When Billy Graham started first started preaching, he used to say: "GOD SAYS"! Then he began to say: "THE BIBLE SAYS"! And at the end he said: "I THINK"!

We must NEVER take the place of God in our puny lives!
We MUST go back & walk with the GOD-MAN through the Gospels & really listen to what HE says. He is the WAY, TRUTH & LIFE - none other!

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